Special Board Meeting now Wed Oct 30 @ 1pm

The Special Meeting is now being held Wed Oct 30 @1:00, at Meadows Community Lifestyle and Wellness Facility. No room is specified, but hopefully it is now a larger room. Full notice is posted on the MCA website.

EDIT: While writing up this post MCA sent the reschedule announcement in a Constant Contact message. Well done. We hope that including Board Meeting reminders in Constant Contact announcements becomes a regular practice.

But the new announcement includes more than just a reschedule. The new notice has a much more descriptive Purpose of Meeting:
Consideration and vote on a
Short-Term Loan Request from The Meadows Country Club.

That’s what we guessed “Short Term Financial Request” meant in our last post, but it is helpful to MCA Homeowners to have a better idea of what the meeting is about. We also noted in that post that TMCC inferred that they expected to have cash flow problems in 2024 and that has obviously come to pass.

MCA bailed out TMCC in 2018 by paying off their debt, buying their assets and then giving them right back for $10/year for 3 years so they could get back on their feet. Three years turned into 6 years of trying to get back on their feet.

TMCC losses continued and in 2020 MCA bailed out TMCC even more through an annual subsidy of $600,000 (MCA Homeowners received minor benefits that cost TMCC nothing and certainly weren’t worth $600,000).

Despite the annual subsidy TMCC reported a loss again in 2023 at their Annual General Meeting, and must be struggling again in 2024 if they are short of cash. WHEN WILL THIS MADNESS OF SUBSIDIZING A PRIVATE CLUB LIFESTYLE FOR A SMALL NUMBER OF MCA RESIDENTS (AND ALMOST AS MANY NON-RESIDENTS) END??? With the MCA Board planning on loaning a money losing entity, it doesn’t sound like it will end any time soon.

In terms of the upcoming meeting, the big questions for MCA Directors are:

ONE: We have heard many, many times how TMCC is an independent private company and their financials are confidential. Is it within the legal powers of Florida HOA’s in general, the MCA specifically, and its Directors to lend money to an independent private company. With the piecemeal presentation of MCA Master Association documentation it is impossible to tell for a layperson. But lending an independent private company MCA Homeowner funds seems WAY outside the purpose and objectives of the MCA’s HOA role to serve its homeowners.

TWO: This is just one more piece of evidence that TMCC cannot sustain itself operating the Meadows/Members course as a private course. The Highlands course has been a mess for several years because TMCC doesn’t have the cash to maintain it properly. We’ve documented this in great detail on this blog. It is way past time to look for the long-term solution to make our (MCA Homeowners’) golf courses sustainable and successful. What are MCA Directors going to do to identify and implement a viable long-term solution to make its golf courses self-sustaining? (HINT: TMCC managing the courses is not the answer)

THREE: In TMCC’s 2024 Annual Meeting handout the club President said “Thank you for your continued support and commitment to our beloved club”. If TMCC Members love their private club so much, why aren’t they coming up with the cash the club needs? They have loaned money to TMCC in the past and assessing members of a private club is “pretty normal”. Has TMCC exhausted this possibility? If so, why was it not successful?

FOUR: We don’t know all the details of the legislation passed by Florida regarding HOA management, but from the summaries a lot of what we read indicated that certain actions would be considered criminal. All MCA Directors better be very, very sure that that lending an independent private company is legal and appropriate. MCA already owns all the assets, so there will be no recourse if TMCC doesn’t repay.

The saga continues. Hope to see you all on Wednesday at 1:00


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36 responses to “Special Board Meeting now Wed Oct 30 @ 1pm”

  1. lhaynesh2 Avatar
    lhaynesh2

    Hopefully the TMC Board and TMCC reads this page and takes it to heart. The property owners (their financial slot machine) is getting active, fired up and willing to fight back. They need to find out who can control who financially and with in legal restrictions. Good article, well said.

    Like

    1. mikeofall Avatar
      mikeofall

      Titanic deck chairs issue

      Like

      1. Website Admin Avatar

        An apt analogy. And the iceberg ahead is plain to see. The MCA needs to recognize it and steer in another direction.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Louise Thorkelson Avatar
    Louise Thorkelson

    Thanks for another wonderful comprehensive analysis… I really appreciate it!Do you know if the community will be allowed to vote or is it only the Board of Directors voting?Sent from my iPhone

    Like

    1. Website Admin Avatar

      It will be a Board of Directors vote. They have pretty broad powers. MCA Homeowners’ power is limited to elections.

      Like

      1. edwardzawacki7 Avatar
        edwardzawacki7

        Thanks for the clear explanation ….I ,as many, feel frustrated by the ongoing saga of TMCC.

        I am amazed the board is OK subsidizing a business that does not generate any income from OUR assest.

        1. I am open to hear some suggested questions to put to the board.
        2. You obviously have experience and understanding that many residents lack….what do you see as next steps for residents to introduce.
        3. Can the board just vote to pass a loan without residents approval/ vote?
        4. Finally, this “Maintain the greenspace” and the country club at all costs is getting old. Just saying.

        thanks for your help

        ez

        Like

      2. Website Admin Avatar

        Our 2 key recommendations were:
        1. Hire a professional golf industry consultant for recommendations. We believe that the most likely recommendation is making the golf courses semi-private (have members who have preferred access and fill in the tee sheet with green fee players).
        2. Don’t enter into a 3-year lease to give you time to act on the above. The MCA has entered into a new lease with TMCC but we don’t know the terms yet. This new lease may delay implementation of #1, but there will always be an out as TMCC does not keep up on the maintenance requirements of the lease.

        Reminder that MCA Homeowners own the golf courses, tennis facilities and restaurants. They can all exist without TMCC. Losing the country club organization (which we always hear is a separate private company) does not mean losing the golf courses and that well-kept greenspace.

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      3. edwardzawacki7 Avatar
        edwardzawacki7

        thank you….I’m looking forward to the meeting, questions and explanations.

        ez

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      4. edwardzawacki7 Avatar
        edwardzawacki7

        I just heard that the board meeting that was cancelled due to the hurricane was actually held the following week.

        there was no notice on constant contact …. few people were in attendance…..several financial considerations already extended to TMCC were discussed…

        Any information regarding this would be appreciated

        Like

      5. Louise Thorkelson Avatar
        Louise Thorkelson

        Thank youMy burning questi

        Like

      6. Website Admin Avatar

        They never send out Board Meeting announcements via Constant Contact. It is so obvious to do that it can only be a conscious choice.
        Two notes I heard from this meeting:
        1. Milton clean-up will cost about $120,000.
        2. The main Clubhouse (our asset, leased/used by TMCC for free) needs $3.6 million of maintenance/replacement work.

        This was not stated in the meeting but the reality is that MCA Homeowners will pay for 100% of this, and TMCC will reap all the benefits. Although things always have to be maintained as they age, it is likely that they have not been well maintained and kept up to date because TMCC hasn’t had funds to do it, so it gets run into the ground (same as the Highlands golf course).

        Like

  3. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    As a former meadows country club board of governors and present tennis member retired business owner I have seen first hand what I feel are mistakes made by some well intentioned people in regards to the club. Money spent, or wasted on projects that in my eyes could have been more cost effective The deck at the tennis facility was way over built. There was no need for the right side to be built at all, ground level walk way cement would have been OK. The new fitness center is poorly designed, and is duplicated already in a standing building owned by the meadows community, big box would have worked much better with room dividers, not enough money was dedicated to the main course to upgrade it, as a avid golfer (now tennis) the course is not a fun inviting patch. The addition of pickleball courts and the way it was implemented was a horrible discision as it alienated the tennis members and caused more off a financial drain on the club, putting it the best position because of financial concerns has already backfired. The entire mca needs new blood and it should be people with real business knowledge, people who know what it like not being able to make payroll or deal with self employed issues. It’s easier to spend other people’s money but it never seems to work over the long run.

    Like

  4. neztul Avatar
    neztul

    Thanks for the continuing work you have taken on, on behalf of ALL homeowners in The Meadows. A homeowner since 2009, I’ve witnessed the HOA Board (some members of the MCC) bail out the club from its debts, fail to be transparent in its dealings about the club, obstruct independent candidates for Board positions and act unilaterally on club practices like ignoring tennis members’ opinions in placing pickleball courts in the tennis courts. My annual fee has skyrocketed despite the fact I do not use the MCC and never have.
    The MCC cannot sustain itself in present form and non-members who have become de facto members, like it or not, need to have input on how to get the MCC off life support. It has been a real battle getting the HOA Board to listen to ALL residents‘ suggestions about how to proceed
    by being open with data, in discussion and accepting change.
    I’m so glad this forum has come out to address these issues and offer some suggestions.

    Mary Ann Lutzen

    Like

    1. Website Admin Avatar

      It has been 6 years since MCA Homeowners relieved TMCC of all debt and the cost of all assets.
      MCA Homeowners have paid $3 million in Renaissance Access fees to TMCC over the last 5 years.
      Demand for golf is extremely high and has been since 2020. If a golf club can’t be profitable in today’s environment, it never will be.
      Changes need to be made to allow the golf courses to be profitable and stop the drain on our financial resources for the benefit of a few.

      Like

  5. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    issues I have seen that were not well thought out

    fitness center is not best use of space, better would have been

    1. Use the existing mca building for meetings, they own everything anyway
    2. Should. Have made the fitness center with 3 large rooms with movable dividers
    3. The expensive walkway at the tennis center was a huge mistake, deck is ok but walkways on both side could have been level cement with roll away bleachers
    4. to save to save buck they went cheap not making pickleball courts stand alone facility, alienating the tennis players and causing a huge financial drain at a time when the club is in financial trouble check the loss of tennis players.

    the word is out , the facility is in trouble and between poor business decisions now the home owners will pay the price to keep a few hundred golfers happy, wife and i have been private club members for 40 years and have seen this play out before. Clubs go bankrupt it’s not uncommon for several reasons, I really don’t see how meadows can survive with three expensive courses tennis building that’s a mess, club house in limbo. The home values will drop as word gets out that the homeowners are footing the bill to keep it going.

    As I said when I was on the clubs board of governors, the school district meadows is in is not then best, young people want the best as we all know. It’s a dated facility with a so so course ,the club is hidden, the mca will not allow the club name. On 17th st with its heavy traffic, they will not allow a sign on 17st on ground they own, on 17 away from the entrance as I fought to allow to no avail, I got the traffic count on 17th street it’s huge especially in winter, that fell on deaf ears.

    maybe the mca should put the club on milk cartons as missing facility?

    Like

  6. DEL Avatar
    DEL

    At the October Board meeting, it was stated TMCC current lease expires December, 2025.

    Like

    1. Website Admin Avatar

      If true (we haven’t seen the lease yet) that would be a positive development.

      Like

  7. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    If the club closes the community home values will drop, I did a study for this same issue at the last club in Central Florida, I am positive this would not happen as the location , the beautiful appearance would definitely keep home values high. Main course goes semi private, in 2025 one non profitable course could be sold of for devolupmemt, per deed. Tennis will always be a profit center, and smaller main club house, pickleball courts in there own location it’s a positive sport now, and the board of governors run the club, remove management company, all tuff pills but hard choices have to be made or the fees to home owners will drive home values down.

    Like

    1. Website Admin Avatar

      Agree that the community is better off with the golf courses running well. But MCA owns the golf courses, not TMCC. They are two separate things and have been since 2018. We can have the golf courses without “the Club”. TMCC and its management of the courses IS THE PROBLEM THAT HAS TO BE FIXED, probably by taking TMCC out of the equation. They have repeatedly run it into the ground and that has to come to an end if we are going to save the golf courses.

      Like

      1. mikeofall Avatar
        mikeofall

        Mca owns it all, they are supporting the club financially thru homeowners dues, apparently the club is looking for a loan “again”. With no collateral, even the furniture Is gone now. As I said in my initial post it’s a losing business, not for the lack of good intentions of many dedicated people, it is what it is, I have 40 years in my own business more as a golfer in several private clubs, I hate to say it but the only two options, keep supporting a stagnant membership golf club, or try to sell the whole thing get a good contract that helps protect the residents, lick your wounds and move on. When a small group of people out of the entire meadows community are the only members, that is a strong tell.

        Like

      2. mikeofall Avatar
        mikeofall

        As a former cc board member I can say that the board , the members, the last three board presidents and of course Tony Johnson have done all they could to get the club back on its feet. There should be no doubt in the minds of the residents of that fact,

        Like

      3. Website Admin Avatar

        Whether that is accurate or not, the bottom line is that it hasn’t worked (and hasn’t for more than a decade). Allowing TMCC 3 years after MCA’s purchase of the assets was a reasonable thing to do. It is WAY past time for MCA to engage experts and look to other options.

        Like

  8. Harold E Haynes Avatar
    Harold E Haynes

    I have no Idea how many more times the TMCC and the MCA Board want a second, third, and fourth chance for the TMCC to survive. The homey moon is over. We need a divorce. Its a business that has to this point not given us any profit on out multi million dollar investment.

    Like

  9. Harold E Haynes Avatar
    Harold E Haynes

    We have no time left as property owners to wait. No more subsidies or short term loans and write offs. Turn our investment over to the best professional, profit experienced bidder and let our investment pay us Back.

    Like

  10. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    Now is the time to consider these cost savings for the mca to consider

    1. Get rid of the management company, club ran with a club manager before
    2. try to sell one maybe two of the public courses, continue as courses concentrate on the meadows club.
    3. make the meadows course semi private.
    4. since it may take years to settle on new club house rebuild remove all unnecessary employees,
    5. 5 lease the tennis facility, there are people already interested.
    6. Take down the golf club house and replace it with a much smaller box, just snack bar , pro shop, the days of making money with a huge venue are over for the club, to much competition in the area with newer clubs in the area food and beverage in the last several years has been a disaster.
    7. until people who were members since the beginning ,stop trying to bring back the glory days they are gone. Move the club forward the mca will have to keep bailing the club out in its present condition.

    I have done business consulting over my career when I retired from my truck and rv dealership at age 48, these are my suggestions.

    time for the old guard to move on and bring the club forward.

    Like

  11. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    After carefully researching I truly believe the entire sports complex should be put up for sale, of course it must remain at least two courses, but I think some group would purchase the entire club facility, as is. At least try, it way past time to let it continue to drain the homeowners, put it up for sale take best offer if any, and move on. There is no other light at the end of the tunnel.

    Like

    1. Website Admin Avatar

      Selling MCA’s sports complex adds/increases the risk of the property being developed into homes. Recall that TMCC’s last plan to sell to a developer only guaranteed the courses would remain open for ONE YEAR. Fortunately MCA purchased the assets and retained the green space. Unfortunately they left the same group in charge of running it (TMCC).
      We believe it is possible to retain the sports complex with less drain on homeowners and it is worth thoroughly investigating. We are at a loss as to why MCA Board won’t hire experts to investigate options.

      Like

      1. mikeofall Avatar
        mikeofall

        I was told a realtor made a comment at the last meeting that if the club closed the property value would drop 30 to 40 % I respectfully disagree, I did a study for a club in Central Florida we belonged to, private golf course 6 tennis courts. I compared the square foot cost per homes up the road one mile no golf course. Sq ft was within 3 dollars, the meadows is in such a great location and the community is really special, home values would never drop per the realtors claim. But what would cause problems value wise, yearly raises to maintain a failing business. Word is getting around per the club house, the Financials, the members club fairway condition etc.

        Let me make a prediction, if the club Is hoping that seasonal golf memberships are going to be what they were in previous years and will continue this year consider that rental homes on the islands may not plentiful, lots of people who had damaged homes are now long term renting on the mainland, so temp rentals may be in short supply. Snow birds with existing homes may be ok we have no club house, no restaurant, as always I am accused of being a pessimist, I prepare for the worst and if I am wrong but I am very happy either way. The mcc is starting out with a 250.00 hole.

        It’s time to start cutting club expenses, I have several suggestions but I am sure everyone does, we are full tennis members for 7 years.

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      2. wastelandloudly754f253984 Avatar
        wastelandloudly754f253984

        lol

        very good comparison!

        but, we can write comments forever and nothing will change. How can we take control of the MCA Board. This is the only way to make any meaningful changes. Otherwise, nothing will change and the Meadows community will deteriorate to the point that the property values will suffer.

        any ideas how we, the residents of the Meadows, can make changes.

        Like

      3. Website Admin Avatar

        There truly is only one way: By electing board members who advocate our interests. Elect directors who are not TMCC members and do no support the current arrangement (more accurately will actively seek a better outcome for MCA Homeowners.
        Individually we can inform our friends and neighbors and encourage them to vote.

        Like

      4. Website Admin Avatar

        Success of golf courses is mostly about the volume of golfer play. They can’t get very far cutting expenses ultimately ends up showing up in bad course quality which is counterproductive.

        How golf courses make (or lose) money

        Like

      5. lhaynesh2 Avatar

        Talking to your neighbour is a start. If you can’t remember all the facts refer them to this Blog, sarasotameadows.com. Excitement is growing. This can be the year of change for the meadows.

        Like

  12. mikeofall Avatar
    mikeofall

    I was just notified that university park is raising it initiation fee for tennis from 4k to 5 k in December, while the meadows decided pickleball courts would be a big plus for the community. Causing several tennis members to cancel there membership, causing a gut punch to all the tennis members who have spent years welcoming and supporting tennis growth. No revenue from pickleball, 500 people signed the pro pickleball document, I hope they show up because the mca spent there money again on a iffy discision that’s already looking like a financial mistake. 40 full tennis members have moved on I was told and after 7 years we are also considering moving out of the club, that’s our 6k a year gone. I am waiting to go to tennis and the door is locked, that why most did not pay upfront.

    Like

    1. wastelandloudly754f253984 Avatar
      wastelandloudly754f253984

      Maybe the best idea is to get out of the Meadows now, before it gets really bad. We are considering that very seriously.

      Like

      1. Website Admin Avatar

        There is a lot to love here. The greenspace is unmatched and this ultimately is about keeping the greenspace in a financially viable way. Having said that, there will be some big bills coming. But the upside is that the bill is split 3500 ways. So a $10 million bill is about $3,000 for the average homeowner (sometimes that is the right way to look at it). The most expensive homes would pay about 6 times that.

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      2. wastelandloudly754f253984 Avatar
        wastelandloudly754f253984

        we all must understand that throwing money into a failing business (the Club) will not solving our problem. The Club will fail for good very soon. Most of the Club members are older and will not be around for too long or at least, will not be able to play golf anymore. Meanwhile, any potential new members will think twice before coming a substantial amount of money in initiation fees, considering the controversy around the present situation. We cannot keep our problems secret for too much longer.
        so, as you said, put millions into a new golf club building and the three golf courses doesn’t make any sense. In time, we will end up with an empty building and deteriorating golf courses.

        As I’ve stated before, sell the golf course land on the east side of Honore. Reconfigure the golf courses on the west side of Honore into two 18 holes (or three 9 holes) semi-private golf courses.

        We would not need any posh golf club building or any extravagant investments that most of the residents are against.

        Like

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